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Friday Afternoon Confessional: Forgetting Sarah Palin

I confess that I ate foie gras this week and didn’t feel bad about it — in fact, the ethical implications didn’t even occur to me until Brad asked me if I felt bad.

I confess that I seem to still have a low-level background radiation of money stress, which will likely persist until I get my first paycheck. I confess that I am making a trip to Kalamazoo to do apartment-hunting on Wednesday; my mom suggested that I should visit home the next time I needed to go to Kalamazoo, and I confess that I don’t want to. I confess that I have decided to give up my Chicago apartment after planning on keeping it, because I finally did the math on how much it would cost. I confess that I’m not yet at the level of financial security where I can be spending a ton of money to have a weekend place.

I confess that I have fallen behind on Infinite Jest, a low point to reach after previously having been almost two weeks ahead of the schedule. The aforementioned trip to Kalamazoo will likely correct that problem.

I confess that my bad streak in chess inspired me to purchase this book, which so far seems promising. I confess that when I suggested that becoming better at chess might make one a sharper thinker more generally, The Girlfriend said, “Yes, that’s exactly what you need in your life — more analysis.”


July 17, 2009 - Posted by | Friday Afternoon Confessional


  1. I confess that I am still waiting for my philosophy grade from the spring semester.

    I confess that I’m convinced that my second year of div school will go better than the first.

    I confess to uncertainty undermining that confidence.

    Comment by Rachel | July 17, 2009

  2. i confess i strongly disliked that cynecdoche ny movie, such a boring ugly movie about boring ugly people saying that life is boring and ugly, i know that myself without any more like reminders

    Comment by read | July 17, 2009

  3. I confess nothing. I know this is Friday, but I don’t care: Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan have filled me with nothing but sheer, unadulterated hate. I hate Wall Street, I hate the White House and Congress for their craven toadying to Wall Street, I hate bloggers like Yglesias who’ve spent the last couple months watching the greatest transfer of public-to-private wealth in American history and have greeted it with half-interested apologetics. I hate that the more attention I pay to politics the more powerless I inevitably feel.

    Comment by stras | July 17, 2009

  4. I confess that against my better judgment, I watched an episode of “30 Rock” last night. Still about as unfunny as “King of Queen’s.” I’m not sure how Tina Fey manages to market herself as both “progressive” and “feminist.” She is plainly neither. Except, perhaps, in comparison to the Taliban.

    Comment by Craig | July 17, 2009

  5. I confess that your first paycheck won’t cut it – it’ll have to be at least a couple of months into things before you stabilize. I confess that in our case, getting a TT job meant income and expenses going up almost in an exact ratio. And that leaving Chicago was a big part of that – you’d think that life would get less expensive when you leave the big exciting city. Also, I confess to an excess of irritability.

    Comment by adamhenne | July 17, 2009

  6. I’m not sure how Tina Fey manages to market herself as both “progressive” and “feminist.” She is plainly neither.

    While my estimation of “30 Rock” remains considerably higher than yours, it is deeply anti-feminist and reactionary – and its racism-humor went from “ironic tongue-in-cheek racism” to “just plain racism” quite a while ago.

    Comment by stras | July 17, 2009

  7. I’m glad I’m not the only person in the world who thinks that Tina Fey and her show is a lukewarm heap of shit. The repeats of “The Office” on immediately after were, however, quite amusing – Jim’s failed attempt to “be classy” and Michael’s “golden ticket” contest.

    Comment by Craig | July 17, 2009

  8. Adam, I don’t think I’m going to face quite the same difficulties because so far it looks like I can avoid buying a car. The only real increase in expenses is debt service — and if I manage to pay off my credit cards, as seems plausible, that will actually create a decrease in recurring expenses in time to start my next job (this is just a one-year visiting assistant professorship).

    Regarding the 30 Rock discussion — the example of Family Guy seems to me to demonstrate that the “ironic tongue-in-cheek racism” routine inevitably degenerates into straight-up racism. I would also note that no one who had even occasionally watched SNL would expect Tina Fey to be progressive and feminist.

    Comment by Adam Kotsko | July 17, 2009

  9. I had never seen Tina Fey on SNL. I haven’t watched SNL at all, with the exception of those digital singing things that end up on YouTube, since I was in high school. She was on Weekend Update, right? Why would anyone in their right mind subject themselves to Weekend Update?

    I maintain that the first season of 30 Rock is really good, and from then on it falls prey to too many guest stars, too much Alec Baldwin, too much reliance on relationship humor, and too little of the show-within-a-show and its associated cast.

    Comment by stras | July 17, 2009

  10. She was also the lead writer, I believe — though not of the digital shorts, maybe.

    Comment by Adam Kotsko | July 17, 2009

  11. I confess that the storms over London are making my head feel like an electrical theatre populated by jagged metal puppets. I confess that anything that reminds me of my animality, apart from the all-too-minimal fun bits, makes me sad. I confess that I feel guilty for being a bit mean about Critchley earlier today, even though I was really trying to be meaner about Vice magazine.

    Comment by infinite thought | July 17, 2009

  12. Given the adulation bestowed upon her by magazines and associated blogs such as “Bust” and “Bitch” and her cult status among a certain type of “third wave feminist,” I think it is safe to say that many view her not only as “progressive” but also “feminist.” In fact, I once read that if I want to fuck a feminist chick, I should express my love for Tina Fey – read on a feminist blog.

    Comment by Craig | July 17, 2009

  13. i confess i don’t like Tina Fey’s lips and her face has something predatory expression like always and that interfered with my watching and i never watched one full episode of her show to know her politics, but they have 30 nominations for the emmys i hear, so there must be something good
    but i confess i should have kept my negative comment on life to myself (karma!, now it will take revenge on me always being that b/u, tphu and knock) and not compromise other innocent confessors’ confessional moods into hatreds, mille pardons
    i blame the question ‘what you don’t need’ for shifting the focus

    Comment by read | July 17, 2009

  14. I confess that Tina Fey didn’t write any of the digital shorts.

    Comment by ben wolfson | July 17, 2009

  15. I confess/fear that as I become a better, more empathetic person, I may also be becoming “humorless” (and maybe “shrill” too).

    I confess that my first reaction to 30 Rock was that it was probably racist, pro-corporate, reactionary, and all other bad things that go with those. (It is sometimes funny — but I laugh at my own jokes, so “sometimes funny” doesn’t cut it.) Then I thought, wait, maybe it’s not so bad, but then I returned to my original position. (HAHA we can make an episode about how NBC would require product placement… on a show produced by NBC that places products; I don’t think that use/mention matters when it comes to psychological manipulation.)

    I also confess to finding Jim’s tormenting of Dwight on The Office to be basically disgusting. What’s wrong with me, will I no longer be able to laugh at the misfortune of others, even when they “deserve it”? I’m beginning to recoil at all harm, I must be losing my perception of nuance!

    Comment by Currence | July 17, 2009

  16. I don’t think that use/mention matters when it comes to psychological manipulation.

    Neither do I, but it is pretty beloved of people who want to do something without actually doing it. Most ironic appreciation is along the same lines.

    Comment by ben wolfson | July 17, 2009

  17. Er, without admitting to themselves that they’re doing it.

    Comment by ben wolfson | July 17, 2009

  18. I confess that, along the lines of finance quasi-jargon, I just thought of a great pick-up line: “That’s quite an attractive asset class you have there.”

    Comment by Adam Kotsko | July 17, 2009

  19. Adam, are you dating my wife?

    I confess that we probably can’t afford renter’s insurance or car insurance and I have been stalling it as long as possible. The car is a salvage and worth about $400, so insurance might be cheaper than I think. The apartment sans renter’s insurance seems a bit of a gamble.

    I confess that I started writing a novel last week with the goal to pump out a first draft of 50,000 words in roughly a month, but quit after 5,000.

    Comment by Colin | July 17, 2009

  20. Oh, I also confess that I “broke vedge” this week by finally indulging in my incredible craving for sardines. And, it was totally worth it. I was a vegetarian for a year and a half, a fairly good run. I refuse to use “Stuff White People Like titles for myself like ‘pescetarian’. I hate that, but that is a different topic reserved for Tuesdays.

    Comment by Colin | July 17, 2009

  21. I currently pay $12 a month for renter’s insurance, so I think you can afford it unless you’re utterly destitute. They even let you bill a credit card for it.

    Comment by Adam Kotsko | July 17, 2009

  22. I confess to listening to songs off of Critchley’s album last night.

    Comment by Anthony Paul Smith | July 17, 2009

  23. It feels a bit hand-to-mouth around here. When I start working, not so much.

    Comment by Colin | July 17, 2009

  24. I confess iPhone is one great wonderment, I can listen to the online streaming radios! I did not know
    mouth-to-hand I looked up, we have a similar expression’ khoid khoirmoigooroo urd khormoigoo nokhokh’ means take from one’s rare side of the skirt to put a patch on the front side, but I think that’s a little deeper level or another saying ‘ khoer idekhgui khooson khonokhgui’ means go ‘not eating twice, not sleeping on empty stomach’ a little better situation b/c calories restriction=longevity in mice
    this comment was brought to you by a longish bus ride
    and generally I think that apartment rents cost ridiculously high in the us that’ s why so many homeless people, so instead of the bailout people could default this housing problem and give all people housing they need and see what will happen, it’s like a great chance to experiment coz the economic collapse they say anyway and that could be more just redistribution of wealth

    Comment by Read | July 18, 2009

  25. hand-to-mouth, not the reverse, what i was thinking

    Comment by read | July 18, 2009

  26. Can someone be specific about how 30 Rock is not feminist. I hadn’t been paying attention either way (I like 30 Rock, although I didn’t get past the first season or two).

    Comment by Jeff | July 18, 2009

  27. I also confess that I “broke vedge” this week by finally indulging in my incredible craving for sardines.

    I confess that I fall off the vegetarian wagon on a fairly regular basis (every couple months or so). So I’m pretty impure, as vegetarians go. But from where I stand, it should really be about reducing overall meat consumption, not living some ideal of a pure, meat-free existence. I think a lot of vegetarians end up calling it off after only a couple years because they see it as a purity contest they can’t possibly live up to, and then just go back to eating meat on a fairly regular basis, which I think really misses the point – it’s okay to eat meat occasionally, as an occasional supplement to a largely vegetarian diet, at least from an ecological/public health perspective.

    Comment by stras | July 18, 2009

  28. i’m mostly a piscivore it seems, but occasionally eat chicken so pischickvore
    sometimes i eat beef-stroganoff or some other cafeteria creation with meat and have vivid dreams, i prefer to sleep without dreams at least not nightmares and don’t use any other psychotropes except blogs, so now giving up on meat b/c of that it seems
    or cheese for example, constipation is like guaranteed after cheese consumption, so my diet is cheese free
    chocolate is really a challenge to give up

    Comment by read | July 18, 2009

  29. I think people complain that having all the female characters be pathetic and desperate in some way is anti-feminist.

    Comment by Adam Kotsko | July 18, 2009

  30. Specifically, they’re pathetic and desperate in ways that are connected to either their pursuit of a career, or their need for/lack of a man and/or a baby.

    Comment by stras | July 18, 2009

  31. There is also a subtext that any woman who (1) does not live in New York and (2) does not work as an executive, senior partner, or in media is necessarily (3) either white trash or a sassy black lady. The white trash tend towards gaudy make-up, styles that are a decade late, missing teeth, prone to pregnancy, and have an inability to speak the same way as real woman (see 1 and 2). The blacks tend to be sexual objects of another male character and really, really sarcastic. The political loyalties of latinos and latinas remains unknown because they speak spanish – this leads to obviously hilarity when you ask the domestic to pick up the dry cleaning and she doesn’t something completely wacky like burn down the apartment.

    Comment by Craig | July 18, 2009

  32. Oh: re the original post – if you eat beef, chicken, pork, etc, then you agree that there aren’t any ethical objections to eating foie gras. They are all produced in the same way. The solution for the foie gras market relative to the rest of the US is to market it as “freedom gras.” It is sort of like Spain chastising Canada for the seal hunt.

    Comment by Craig | July 18, 2009

  33. Are we still at war with the French? I haven’t been keeping up. Anyway, the proper recoinage is surely “freedom fat,” or better yet, “fat freedom,” as in “they hate us for our fat freedom,” which they surely do, and should.

    Comment by jms | July 18, 2009

  34. On the other hand, if foie gras presents an ethical problem for you, then so should beef, chicken, pork and whatever other meats you consume – including milk and eggs.

    As for the French, I’m anglo-Canadian. My people have always been and will always be at war with the Quebecois. I’m really not sure why. Anyone who has spent more than ten minutes listening to Quebecois radio or watching Quebecois television will most certainly know that they are a distinct culture – and infinitely more advanced than Anglo-Canadian culture.

    Comment by Craig | July 18, 2009

  35. But! They are responsible for Jesus de Montreal, and thus, indirectly, for a waste of my time.

    Comment by ben | July 18, 2009

  36. Anyone who has spent more than ten minutes listening to Quebecois radio or watching Quebecois television will most certainly know that they are a distinct culture – and infinitely more advanced than Anglo-Canadian culture.

    Where “advanced” is defined as “obsessed with phone-in horoscopes and the lottery”?

    Comment by RobDP | July 18, 2009

  37. Don’t get me wrong, I love Quebec. Just not so sure that TV/radio is the best index of its cultural supremacy. Neither were these eminent Quebecois

    Comment by RobDP | July 18, 2009

  38. L’Orkestre des pas perdu is good.

    Comment by ben | July 18, 2009

  39. I was thinking more like Energie and Rock Detente – and the push for the right to death (among other social rights) emerging out of Quebec. Although, admittedly, like their Continental counterparts, they seem to have ridiculous problems with outsiders.

    Comment by Craig | July 18, 2009

  40. I confess I neither feel it as a purity contest nor really act very evangelical about my vegetarianism and think that most people who quibble about it are just pussies. You either decide your ethical objection to the meat industry is enough to overcome your craving for delicious steak (recognizing that it is at the end of the day a pathetic and largely ineffective symbolic protest) or you decide that it isn’t and you keep eating meat (and recognize that it’s a pathetic form of non-protest to a corrupt system). I’m all for “lowering meat consumption”, but don’t call yourself a vegetarian because it just isn’t accurate. I also confess I hate when all those meat-eating fucks eat up all the vegetarian catering at conferences and/or when all the vegetarian catering is eggs covered in mayo. Can someone get some fucking hummus or a decent salad?

    Comment by Anthony Paul Smith | July 19, 2009

  41. I’m all for “lowering meat consumption”, but don’t call yourself a vegetarian because it just isn’t accurate

    I’ll call myself whatever I want. Vegetarian, vegetarian, vegetarian.

    Comment by stras | July 19, 2009

  42. Fair enough. Dick.

    Comment by Anthony Paul Smith | July 19, 2009

  43. Our community is working toward ethical meat only. And I confess, I know that Craig sees no distinction between factory farmed meat and Inuit or other indigenous forms of meat eating, but I haven’t figured out why yet. All the arguments I’ve seen seem to revolve around similar ones to the ones offered here: factory animals are treated the same as those used to produce foie gras.

    Comment by old | July 19, 2009

  44. i think vegetarians/vegans being/sounding aggressive is like justified by their total head number, coz they are fewer compared to the general population and their existence must be like tolling to remind others of the dangers of meat consumption but to all their different paths
    so my path is through elimination of dreams, not ethical considerations, but recently i caught myself subconsciously eliminating leather things, bags, shoes if to think about durability i’d choose them, if to think about their weight bags especially i’d chose the things canvassy, but never faux leather, coz those cause my feet sweat
    i confess i was confusing three different things as one and was prejudiced against which are a movie with Russell Crowe, a movie with Jim Carrey and Milan Kundera’s novel
    i’m glad i untangled the confusion and liked the comedy very well

    Comment by read | July 19, 2009

  45. 0
    i confess i had horrible dreams last night after eating turkey pranks, so turkey seems should be more meat than chicken in my registry

    Comment by read | July 19, 2009

  46. excuse me, franks

    Comment by read | July 19, 2009

  47. Old, my objection has nothing to do with the manner of production, but the fact of consumption. Thus, whether the animal is killed by a beautiful and romantic noble savage on the ice floes of the north, by a dirty hippie farmer, or by a man who kills three to five hundred animals an hour makes no difference. The distinction you are missing is that between use and treatment.

    Animal welfare, which I do not advocate, argues for the best possible treatment of animals prior to their consumption. (“Best possible” limited by the need to produce more than 53 billion animals per year, of course, which means that your preferred mode of purchasing meat is unrealistic on a global scale and remains the privilege of the rich and cosmopolitan who can afford to feel good about themselves when eating steak while mocking the poor and dirty masses who have no option but to purchase grocery store meat.) Hence, this position will say that animals should not experience any undue pain and suffering during growth and that they should not be conscious at the time of death (chickens) or that their death should be immediate (cows, pigs). Put another way, animals have an interest in living, but not in staying alive – their death is no harm to that animal.

    Animal rights, which I do advocate, argues that animals should not be used at all regardless of how well they are treated because animals are the sort of beings who have an interest in their own lives. (The “rights” part I have a problem with, not because I don’t think animals are the sort of beings that can have rights, but because I’m not sure there are any beings that can have rights, humans included.) This means that animals should not be used in a way that contradicts their interest. Eating them for dinner certainly contradicts their interest. Wearing them as clothing certainly contradicts their interest. Doing draize eye tests certainly contradicts their interest. Zoos, rodeos, blood sports all certainly contradict their interests. Scientific research certainly contradicts their interests.

    Consequently, my position towards animals is ethical (not political, as APS notes above – animal rights has some sort of inability to be political focusing on ethical change at the individual level and mainstream animal rights is vehemently opposed to violent activism, such as ALF/ELF). I do not use or consume animal products insofar as it is possible (fibre, furs, flesh or dairy/eggs) and I avoid using products that have been tested on animals insofar as it is possible. (This means that before I use a new product, I have to spend too much time on the internet researching the company and, in store, reading ingredient labels – you wouldn’t believe how many bags of chips contain lactose; and even labels fail because they are not required to indicate if the product is synthesized or derived from animal sources, such as with glycerin.) Ordinarily, this position is described as vegan. A vegetarian most likely does not adopt an ethical position relative to animals and insofar as they do it is adopted inconsistently, but, rather, a dietary position – they decline to eat certain foods (usually beef and pork, but occasionally also chicken and fish) but continue to eat others (dairy, eggs).

    The Friday Afternoon Confessional is likely not the place to pursue this discussion. Anyone interested can bring it to my blog or contact me by email.

    Comment by Craig | July 19, 2009

  48. Fair enough. Dick.

    Get a grip. You can put “lowering meat consumption” in scare quotes as much as you want; my primary concerns regarding the production of meat are ecological, and so my diet is, in fact, motivated by the desire to lower the consumption of meat. I don’t particularly care whether or not you throw me out of some imagined private vegetarian club, though, so by all means, go ahead.

    Comment by stras | July 19, 2009

  49. Is there a logical connection among human fetus rights and animal rights?

    I don’t give a crap about animal rights, but I’m passionate for the fetuses. And I’m guessing it’s the opposite for most of you…why is that?

    Comment by Chad | July 19, 2009

  50. No. Likely because you are an idiot.

    Comment by Craig | July 19, 2009

  51. Stras,

    Get a sense of humor. It was a joke.

    Though I do think you’re wrong to think simply making “happy meat” and “lowering meat production” will do much ecologically without huge decreases in meat production.

    Comment by Anthony Paul Smith | July 20, 2009

  52. Get a sense of humor. It was a joke.

    Okay. Asshole. Wait! Don’t get offended! When I suddenly called you an “asshole,” I assumed you knew it was a joke! You could see me smiling, through the internet, right?

    Though I do think you’re wrong to think simply making “happy meat” and “lowering meat production” will do much ecologically without huge decreases in meat production.

    I do not, in fact, think this, nor have I ever said this.

    Comment by stras | July 20, 2009

  53. i like the expression passionate for the fetuses
    better be passionate for the women and everything will be allright
    regarding antifeminism i thought i’m like born inherently feminist, an net, the other day i watched another classical movie recommended around here which i enjoyed very much, it’s like a masterfully staged chaos and funny, a bit soc realistic meaning joyfulness, but the 60ies, so perhaps that’s like understandable, nice clothes except hats
    reminded me of my first landing in narita and reassured me, mol, not me alone, once i even got my face smashed about the glass wall at the cell phone store too, around here everything feels more like authentic
    so i caught myself being mysogynist
    there was a nice looking young girl doing basically nothing just always a little bit late from her tourist group and trying to take pictures of the natives
    and i was like all irritation and restless legs, very strange

    Comment by read | July 20, 2009

  54. +ic

    Comment by read | July 20, 2009

  55. Craig, thanks, that helps me locate where you are coming from better. I do have a number of queries, but will reserve them for discussion at your blog at a later time (or, more ideally, in person sometime).

    Chad, you seem to have answered your own question about their being a logical connection between fetal rights and animal rights since you care passionately about one and don’t give a shit about the other. Why would it be illogical for things to go the other way?

    I, for one, care about both (though I certainly come up short in terms of Anthony and Craig’s passion for animal welfare), and there are a few others who regularly comment or even post here who feel the same way. Right wingers are never going to make the progress they’d like to see on abortion until they can start taking seriously things like feminism and animal welfare and pacifism and environmentalism and child welfare (you know, the old Barney Frank line about his opponents being ‘pro-life from conception until natural birth’). And I’ve been arguing that since my days at Liberty U.

    Comment by old | July 20, 2009

  56. doing nothing wrong i meant, coz doing nothing would sound like immediately irritating perhaps
    there was another disoriented man who would always get lost in the labyrinth whom i found like rather endearing, that’s why the self-accusation in mysogynism, what’s the difference who gets lost
    i can find my way anywhere pretty easily the first time without much difficulties, but for the second time if i happen to go the same place always would get lost, coz rely on my memory and do not take the usual memos i think
    eventually i would find the way, but with some confusion
    my sister would stop and talk to the first person she sees and for the longish time, it was like pretty tiresome to navigate ny with her because of her talks, i would rely more on the written signs

    Comment by read | July 20, 2009

  57. Stras,

    Fair enough. Mea culpa.

    Comment by Anthony Paul Smith | July 20, 2009

  58. I wasn’t asking my question with an implied answer. But I can at least speak for myself. My attitude stems from the fact that I believe animals are intended for human use/consumption. I don’t wanna see an animal suffer, and I’m not alone amongst meat-eaters with that inclination, but I don’t mind when they’re killed for food, etc.

    If you believe animals should be protected from people like me, fine…a discussion for another time. But my question is why would one care so much for an animal and care not at all for the unborn human. Is my cry of inconsistancy unwarranted?

    Comment by Chad | July 20, 2009

  59. Old, anytime you’re interested – you have my email address. I’ll be posting my syllabus for my first year seminar, “Animals, the Environment and the Law” sometime this week. The course is intended as an introduction to animal welfare/animal rights/animal studies, looking at both the historical understanding of the difference/relation between humans and animals as well as contemporary issues.

    Comment by Craig | July 20, 2009

  60. Chad,

    Yes, it is. I believe fetuses are intended for human experimentation.

    Comment by Anthony Paul Smith | July 20, 2009

  61. I don’t think there are any pro-choice people who think that wanted fetuses are morally indifferent. What they think is that a woman (who is a human being, right?) shouldn’t be forced to have a child if she finds herself pregnant unexpectedly. (Less controversial is that the woman should be able to terminate a pregnancy when it’s life-threatening to her.) It’s not that they’re prioritizing animals over humans — they’re prioritizing actual-existing human beings over what are at best potential human beings. Pro-life people always forget about the woman’s very existence — the fetus always trumps her. That seems like a much weirder inversion than thinking that animals shouldn’t be factory-farmed.

    Comment by Adam Kotsko | July 20, 2009

  62. My question wasn’t intended to spark another abortion debate. Nor was it intended to be accusatory. I probably SHOULD care more about animal welfare since I’m pro-life. My point is that animal welfare activists seem to be more “pro-life-in-general” than most people, and should lean toward the pro-life side of the abortion issue.

    “the fetus always trumps her” – that’s true, and I’m fine with that unless her life is threatened. Claiming that we ALWAYS forget about the woman’s existence is a bit extreme.

    And a ‘potential human being’ is much more important than a cow…if we disagree on that then we can quit talking about it.

    Comment by Chad | July 20, 2009

  63. Claiming that we ALWAYS forget about the woman’s existence is a bit extreme.

    Sorry, I’ll try to be more subtle and nuanced in the future.

    Comment by Adam Kotsko | July 20, 2009

  64. I don’t know, I’ll go with the cow on this one. Can we stop talking now?

    Comment by Anthony Paul Smith | July 20, 2009

  65. Dumb kid to my sister, the militant ninth grade vegetarian: “So wait — if a cow and a person were drowning, are you saying that you would save the cow?”

    Sister to dumb kid: “Is the person you?”

    Comment by Wrongshore | July 21, 2009

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